The Shifting Narrative of Culture (Bonus Episode)
JUNE 7, 2022 | 45.5 MINUTE LISTEN
HOSTS: JOHN RINEHIMER & CONNOR OWEN
GUEST: STEVE DENEFF
Listen on Spotify, Apple, and Google.
Episode Overview
On this bonus episode, we sat down with the lead pastor of College Wesleyan Church, Steve DeNeff, to discuss shifts taking place in culture and how they impact the next generation. As someone who has led the local church for decades, Steve provides his take on the next generation, culture, the stories that shape us, and humanity. This is a conversation you won’t want to miss—and it will help you better live out the kingdom of God while walking with the next generation!
Read the Transcript
Connor:
Hey, everybody. This is Connor Owen with The Approach. Thanks for joining us this week. Today is another one of our bonus episodes. So right before Easter, John and I had a chance to sit down with our guest, Steve DeNeff, and you're going to learn a little bit more about him as we go through our episode, but we had a really candid conversation with Steve about culture, the next generation, and how we live out the story of Jesus in our lives.
I think you're really going to enjoy today's episode. I know we had a great time recording it. Steve brings an expertise as somebody who has... he's just led the local church that he's been in for decades, and then John brings his expertise and his focus on the next generation. So I think as you listen, what I want to challenge you with, is think of somebody you can share this with, because I think John and Steve have a lot of wisdom to share, that's going to help each of us as we live out the story of Jesus here on earth.
Connor:
Welcome to The Approach, a podcast where we help you walk with and pray for the next generation. My name's Connor Owen, as usual, and I'm joined by John Rinehimer.
John:
Hey.
Connor:
And today's episode is going to be a little bit different. Like last month, this is another bonus episode, and we're really excited about our guest. Joining us today is Steve DeNeff. Steve is the lead pastor of College Wesleyan Church in Marion, Indiana, which is where World Gospel Mission headquarters is. He's also the author of several books, including Soul Shift and Whatever Became of Holiness? He's a leader and he's a friend to many people. He's also my lead pastor and my neighbor. So he has to put up with me quite a bit. But welcome to the show, Steve, thanks for taking time.
Steve:
Thank you, Connor.
John:
And we're all dying to know, are you in fact, a Lions football fan?
Steve:
I am. Through and through.
John:
What has led you to that?
Steve:
Original sin. Every day is Good Friday.
John:
Sunday's coming.
Steve:
No, it actually isn't.
John:
It doesn't apply here.
Connor:
There's a picture of the Bears-Lions game this year. It's Steve, his son, Nick, and then their son-in-law, Patrick. And Patrick's a Bears fan. Steve's got this big smile on his face, and Patrick is a Bears fan, he's kind of smiling. And Nick doesn't smile at all.
Steve:
He never.
Connor:
And Nick, he's just staring at the camera, and I'm like, "Nick knows what's coming here. This is not..."
Steve:
He knows.
Connor:
He's like, "This ain't going to go well."
Steve:
He does. Yeah.
Connor:
"Why would I smile for this?"
Steve:
You see, I've got this whole, "I'm just glad to be here."
Connor:
Yeah.
Steve:
And Nick's got this, "Yeah. I know what's coming."
Connor:
He's like, "This is bad." And Patrick's kind of smirking like, "We're going to take you guys."
Steve:
Yeah. "We got this." Yeah. But you know what? The Bears are awful, too.
Connor:
Yeah. It's bad.
Steve:
For the last 60 seconds, it was kind of dumb versus dumber.
Connor:
Yeah. So, Steve, as we get going today, let's start off with what excites you most about the next generation or, or Gen Z?
Steve:
Several things, actually. One of them, Connor, is the energy that they bring into the faith that they possess. They're at the same time searching, they are at that moment ready to give themselves to it. Their authenticity, their questions, their honest doubt at times, they still believe in the power of words. They grew up using them, or being hurt by them, so they still believe words matter and can move people. And as a speaker, that's kind of what I use a lot of, so they're very responsive to that. I love their energy for social justice. I think they have touched a nerve in the church that has gone dormant for a long time, and they've revived the need for that.
Connor:
Yeah. Yeah. When you talk about words they use, it also makes me think about stories. You talked a few weeks ago in your sermon about the difference between narrative and story, and you broke that down. I wonder if you could break that down here.
Steve:
Yeah. A narrative is like the chassis. The narrative of any story is the underlying frame. It's the way that you tell a story, and the intention is to hide it. So it's never evident when you're listening to the story, it's hidden under the details. You won't see it, or hear it unless you go looking for it.
The story, on the other hand, are the details. It's the players, it's the plot, it's the drama, the movement, the actions, the reactions, all of that. The components of a story lay over the top of the narrative. And so, as you're listening to a story, you have to ask yourself, "How is the story moving?" And what you find often, is that there's really only a handful of narratives, but there's lots of different stories.
When I talked about it in the message that day, I talked about Hallmark. I realize I got a fair amount of pushback on that. There's hundreds of Hallmark movies, but there's one narrative. And then, there's hundreds of stories over the top of that. All Hallmark stories are the same, and they're predictable.
Connor:
If you're spotting the narrative, "Oh, this story's going to go this way."
Steve:
"Yeah. I think I know how this is going to end." And you're about three minutes in. So, if it helps alleviate some tension with your audience, the gospels are very much that same way. A lot of the stories in the Bible are exactly the same way. The story is different, but the narrative is exactly the same. And once somebody tells you the narrative, then you can read the story a little differently saying, "Okay. All right. Now I'm starting to understand what's happening here." And I think that's how a lot of the stories in the gospels are written.
Connor:
Using the same narrative underneath.
Steve:
Same narrative occurs again and again. And there's both a macro narrative. There's one narrative over the entire scripture that is then repeated in smaller loops throughout scripture.
John:
Yeah. So, maybe a quick example, just a micro narrative of the gospels, how you see that played out.
Steve:
Yeah. One of the earliest ones is the Exodus. It starts out with Israel is in a predicament, they're in bondage. They have not caused this. They didn't deserve this. This was done to them. But it's still a predicament, and they can't get out of it. And that's frequently replayed through stories in the scripture. We are up against forces we cannot control.
The next movement in that, is that God comes along and makes a promise, generally in the form of a covenant. And generally, in the form of an act. So in that story, it starts out with Israel in bondage, and then it goes from there into God's going to find a deliverer. His name is Moses.
Moses then goes before the people, and they won't believe him. And that's the third movement in that narrative, is there's a moment when the people hear the promise of God, they believe it or they don't, and the future depends on that moment. Israel doesn't believe at first, but when they're standing by the Red Sea, and the wind begins to blow, they start to wonder if something is up. Right? And before they know it, it's a full gale, and the sea has parted, and they go through it on dry ground.
On the other side of the sea, something new is born, a nation. And that's the fourth part of this. After God makes a promise and the people believe it, then something new is possible, is birthed out of that belief. And so that's, at least as I read the stories in the Bible, Old and New Testament, that's kind of the sequence. There's a predicament followed by an announcement or a covenant or a significant act by God. He's going to deliver us. And that's followed by a moment of belief, like an awakening. And once there's an awakening, the change has already begun. Then over time, or sometimes all at once, there's a sudden and abrupt change, and something new is born.
John:
Yeah. That's really good. I think our wives kind of critique us because we talk about narrative and stuff at home. "No one is going to..." "Why can't you be more human?" That sounded really helpful. I think, to our listeners to explain that in really helpful, tangible, kind of put some handles on it. And we were talking earlier, before we started recording, about the speed, the rate of change in the world today, especially with the next generation, Gen Z. Alpha already are being born right now, but we'll stick to Z for right now.
Steve:
I've read a little about Gen C, COVID generation.
John:
Oh, right.
Steve:
And that's not a false label, that's a whole other world.
John:
Yeah. It's probably going to end up being a subset of most of your Zen Z/all the babies being born, and what are they coming into.
Steve:
Yeah.
John:
So part of that probably subset Alpha-ish. It's going to be interesting.
Steve:
Yeah.
Connor:
Tim Elmore calls them the Pandemic Population.
John:
Yeah.
Steve:
Yeah.
Connor:
He did a book on it, actually, right in the middle of the pandemic. It was really interesting.
John:
That's yeah... That's dealing more with the students and you're talking about all the stuff they didn't... All the rights of passages they didn't experience, whether college or high school or all that. Whereas the kids being born during this time period, it's definitely a shift.
Steve:
Huge.
John:
You know, very similar it's like a 9/11 shift or, World War II, Pearl Harbor. You know, you do things very differently now as a civilization, right?
Steve:
If the Gen Z is that wide of a swath, I'm wondering if it's going to be pretty hard to paint them in one stereotype, because a lot of, for instance, the love of technology, which would be just really deep in the older part of that, the next generation is actually putting that down. They're going off of social media. They're they're not... If they're using phones at all, they're using flip phones and track phones or anything they can.
John:
Yeah burners and stuff like that.
Steve:
Yeah, that they can get rid of so-Yeah, you do see those kind of like pendulum swings. Yeah, well, I can talk about this all day, This could be...
John:
No, it's super interesting. I think you're right. Even millennials, there was a pretty big divide the first time in a long time of almost two generations inside of one. Very different. And Gen Z, I mean, arguably could see three or four subsets, because the rate of change your describing, and so that makes it really tough as parenting or anything and leadership. It's the way your 21, the way you parent or lead your 21 year old, to your 14 year old, to your 10 year old, could all be drastically different of what they've gone through and experienced, right?
Steve:
Yep.
John:
Again, different... Well, the narrative will probably be the same, but the stories they're experiencing…or whatever technology they're exposed to, could be super different. So it's like... So it's a wild time.
Steve:
It's getting harder and harder to pin that down now, isn't it?
John:
Oh, definitely. Yeah. You can't just make these blanket-
Steve:
From 5000 feet, you got to go up to 30,000 almost to even get your mind around something that.... That's moving. I think in the college campus, the generations are reinventing themselves about every three or four years now. About the time the freshmen are ready to graduate, the new ones coming in are in a totally different place. And where I see it and speaking to them is what they respond to and how they respond, what they laugh at, and they don't think is funny. What the nerves are, you know? They get hurt and offended by different things. Every three or four years, you're like... So what was cool two, three years ago could get you killed today as a speaker.
John:
And in that speed, the Barna research tells us only 4% of Gen Z's are having a biblical world view, arguably narrative understanding there, I know there's debates academically on all that, but I'll use them interchangeably right now. So if only 4% have a biblical worldview, what do you think of the narrative for this next generation? What are they listening to? What's the narrative they're succumb to, or they're being hit with the most, would you say?
Steve:
Can I back away from the question, maybe answer it a little differently? Because again I don't... In spite of the fact that I have five generations in front of me every Sunday in the same room, I'm less concerned about the characteristics of each generation, and I'm more concerned about human nature in general. And so I think my short answer to that would be in targeting Gen Z, I don't think I would start with their unique characteristics, I would start with their humanity.
And I would say whatever generation they are, the problems that plague humanity are about the same. They have different expressions to be sure, because people chase those problems with different ways to satisfy them. But the problem itself, the predicament itself, is not that different from one generation to the next. Those problems are bondage or addiction, isolation or alienation, or separation, kind of hostility toward each other. There's a sense of a confusion, a moral confusion, that plagues humanity, and has for centuries where people try to make decisions that they think are the right ones, but they always lead to problems.
Again, what's changing is the vice or what we get into, but the drive and the hunger is still there. The problem is whenever I do what I want, why don't I like what I get? And that's thousands of years old. So in reaching any generation, I think I would target more the part of their humanity that is struggling now and less with what they're chasing.
John:
That's really helpful. So I guess there was the secular narrative. It hasn't changed.
Steve:
No.Right? That's the same core over and over and over. What's changing then is the stories, of how it's dressed up, the players, the characters, but the vices are the same. The story arc, if you will, is the same.
Steve:
Yeah. A couple weeks-
John:
It's all Hallmark. It's all...
Steve:
With a much better ending. I...A couple weeks ago, I talked about the conflict between toil, which is the sense of, "It just feels to me like I'm working so hard in my life and I'm not getting any traction and my horizons are too low, and I'm frustrated, and everything I do is too hard", and that's the human predicament that looks different in every generation.
But it's the same basic predicament. Despair is another one, where we come to the end of things and just go, "There is no point hoping any longer. I can't find a reason." And when you're in that place, it's strange. You don't want things to get better. Again, that's a basic human predicament that takes different expressions from one generation to the next. But it's the same. It's the same humanity.
John:
So, and feel free to push back on this as well, which is part of the conversation. So why... The biblical narrative hasn't changed, the gospel hasn't changed. The secular narrative still is the same. What has changed, I think arguably is the speed, right?
Steve:
Yeah. Yeah.
John:
And so for a generation, this is all they've known. And so the rest of the generations are going "Well yeah, that seems familiar yet. Boy, the rate of it." So how does that speed of our... Like how is this generation supposed to respond to a gospel narrative, when they're used to the immediacy, the speed the... Does that make sense?
Steve:
Yeah.
John:
Because God doesn't respond with TikTok sound bites, short clips, immediate responses always, or maybe ever. So does that make sense? How do you mesh those together with your experience?
Steve:
Yeah. Unfortunately, most of the miracles that happen in the older, New Testament are sudden. And so we get our expectations are set by that. God is going to part everything for me like he did the sea, he's going to make it rain like he did for Elijah. But most of life doesn't move at that speed.
Steve:
I'm wondering if the best way to convert or work with that generation is a full immersion in the body of Christ. Again, this may go in a different direction than I had anticipated, but I have a new appreciation for the power of the body of Christ to convert people. Jesus and gospel are not products to be consumed, to make one's life better. They are the power of God under salvation, and that power is embodied in a living community. How that helps in the speed process is I think if a person is immersed in a healthy body, they can absorb things at a slower pace. If I'm surrounded by people that are with me in the struggle, then I may have more patience when things aren't changing at the speed I want. As long as I'm in this journey with somebody, I think I might be willing to stay.
John:
Yeah. It really makes you think about... So maybe it's just flipping the script if you will, on where does the immediacy lie? Instead of wanting, "God, I need you to do this miracle burning bush moment", that's what immediacy is. Well it could immediate is, "I've got these brothers and sisters around me and I can have" quote unquote "immediate access to them. I can walk with them now. Right here. Right now. Older, wiser in the flesh embodied body of Christ", and that's where some of the immediacy is helping me say, "Hey, this is actually a normal part of growing and walking in this world." I don't know.
Steve:
And let's be clear about the direction of this. If, when we come to Christ, it's not, well... I worry when people go into the conversion process asking what God or Christ is going to do for them. The arrows are all pointing from him to me. And that's exactly the problem, isn't it? If we go into this encounter with Christ in another way and just say, "This really isn't about my life that much at all, it's more about his. So I'm not asking how does Jesus supply to me? I'm asking, how do I figure my life out in the context of his. Paul said in Colossians, "And when Christ, who is your life shall appear, you will also appear with him in glory."
Steve:
We have no life apart from Christ. So when people come to Christ, again as almost a product to be consumed, to make my life better. So what? So I can have it back again? The terms of that relationship are flawed from the beginning. So part of it isn't in the presentation of the gospel. We're asking a person to put down their lives for something that is larger than their lives. If you lose yourself, you'll find yourself. But if you keep looking for yourself, you will lose yourself.
John:
I love that. So kind of on that, you're already going down, but give us a little bit more. I heard you preach the Proverbs 25:25, like "cool water to a weary soul is good news from a foreign land." Connect those dots a little bit more for us for this next generation. What does, like you said, even we just sometimes flippantly say these words about presenting Jesus to someone, and we don't mean to make it sound like all about them, but we just did. And so being intentional with that, what is the good news? What is cool water? What's that look like for this next generation?
How can we come around them and make sure we are being intentional with the gospel narrative, with the way we're setting it up? I'm sure you've heard this, what you win people with, it's what you win them to.
Steve:
Yeah.
John:
So not just doing it flippantly, so we say, "Oh man, that's great. I led someone to the Lord, or conversion numbers, or baptism numbers", or whatever. But here's a genuine follower, surrounded their life, they're living in Christ, not just treating him like a commodity or a consumer. Yah, can you help us unpack that a little bit more?
Steve:
So let me take one of the conditions, which I think is pretty strong in that generation is the condition of hostility, alienation, division, because that's the world they've grown up in. And that's the story. Actually, the narrative that they've been told again and again and again. There is something about you that is different, maybe inferior, and you're being held off over and against the rest of society. It might be your sexuality, it might be your race, it might be your gender, it might be your limitations. There's something about you that is different, and they don't like you.
This generation is growing up I think, sensing that they are alone. I think I read 63% of people in America today feel that they're a minority. So the question is where does that narrative come from? How is it that we have created a society wherein everyone feels there is power in minority status? So by claiming that then, I can see myself as different from somebody else. And in some cases there's hostility there between me and the ones that are doing this to me. The gospel is that Christ has torn down the wall of hostility between the two, and he has reconciled people with vast differences in his own body and made them one. And he said to people that are religious "peace", and he has said to people that feel like they are irreligious far outside of church, "peace."
And created in himself, one person out of two. That's gospel. There is someone who is pulling the world together by getting his arms around people that are fighting, and in hostility. People of different races, different ethnicities, different backgrounds, nationalities, different ideologies. Again, some of the stats that I've seen that have intrigued me is that, to the question "I prefer to worship with people of my own ideology", the younger you are, the more likely you are to want that. So the new wall of division is not race, believe it or not. It's ideology. Two people that are united over ideology from different races are closer than two people of the same race with different ideologies.
But there's still hostility. We're still driving people apart, we're just using a different wedge. So to come around that and say, "Whatever your convictions are, keep them, hold onto them and be distinct from one another. But come together in Jesus Christ. Here is a person that is bigger than all of us, with a dream for this world already begun, that not only values your distinctiveness, but needs your distinctiveness. It is complementary to other people's distinctions by being who you are, the rest of us are better. And so are you when we remain who we are in Christ." That's gospel to me.
John:
Yeah.
Connor:
Yeah. I was watching a Eugene Peterson interview, and he says similar to that, he says, "I'm happy with who I am. I'm Eugene, and I'm not trying to be anybody else. And I feel pretty comfortable in that. And here's this, I don't know, he's probably in his eighties at this point, and you can just tell he's very comfortable in who God made him to be, not in a "I'm better than", but "This is me living in that, and reflecting the image of God in that."
John:
I think the key phrasing in that was the "in Christ part."
Connor:
Yeah.
Steve:
Yeah.
John:
Because a lot of people say, "Well, this is me, deal." Right? Or "deal with it." The key qualifier as a follower of Jesus is it's "in Christ", which obviously is transformational. And the key for that, for sure but...
Steve:
Do you remember in Philippians chapter three, Paul says, "So I press on to take hold of that, for which Christ Jesus took hold of me." In other words, on the day Christ took hold of me, he had something in his mind. There was an image that he had of me in his mind on the day he took hold of me. There was a picture on his fridge. So to be in Christ is to learn how to live into that picture.
John:
I love that. Just think about the picture of the vision he has for our lives and it's good and, yeah...
Steve:
And what makes sin terrible, I had this conversation with the Lord this morning, where we were talking about something that I was struggling with in the last week. There's just been some struggles in my mind and some relationships that are in the church that are happening. And it was causing emotion to rise up, and then I started talking to myself and when you do that, you listen to yourself and then you believe yourself. And what I heard, I think this morning, was the trouble with this Steve is not that it is sin, the trouble is that it is unbecoming of you. That is not who you are designed to be. You are so much better when you don't have that on.
And that to me is gospel to a culture that is in hostility, and each person is fighting to protect their turf, feeling like if the other side wins, they lost something. Because in this culture, people that lose arguments are always victims. So to be able to lose and to find Christ in your losses, as one who still belongs to you there, I think is marvelous news.
Can you hear it? Or...I see you, I see you smiling.
Connor:
You've used an illustration before Steve about mic drop moments and how every TV show is... It builds and it builds to the conflict and then there's this moment where the two characters get in the same room, and the one just let's go of everything, and then they walk out. And that's I think playing to the uniqueness we all want to have, but it's not in Christ and it's not becoming of the image he has of us.
Steve:
Yeah. Yeah. Philippians two, "Let each of you look onto the interests of others, as more important than yourself." That's actually from the original language, the English have softened that because it doesn't feel American enough, but what Jesus actually said was, "No, you elevate other people above yourself." So you don't do your mic drop and make that last final statement and then you walk off the stage. You stay in it, you stay in the argument with people, for years. But you stay with them. Which, again goes back to the whole community thing. I think if we found churches and communities that were not like us and we forced ourselves to stay in communities like that, we would have to learn the qualities of Christ just to survive in a community like that. It's because we can leave it, and find our own that sometimes makes it just too easy.
John:
It just reminds me so much again, like of how Jesus, so many times the Pharisees tried to corner Jesus. Who sinned? This guy or his parents? And so who loses, right? Who's the victim?
And what does Jesus say? It's neither. And so it kind of reminds me of, we're so used to, it's not just used to, we are encouraged to, on your phone, on your news feed, in your life, everything you subscribe to is to be your wants, your desire, right back to the self. Listen, pick your favorite teams, your favorite news people, your favorite people you want to follow. So it's everyone reinforcing the ideology that I already have, so I get more of it, which I think is somehow unifying, but is actually from moving me, from other parts of the body and I'm atrophying.
Steve:
Yeah. I think if you've been a Christian a while, and Jesus has not offended you lately, then you're probably misreading the scripture. He is an equal opportunity offender. He says things that are shocking, and he seems not to care. People walk away mad. I used one Sunday, where do you get this authority? He says, "John's baptism. Where does that come from? Heaven or men?" And they confer amongst themselves and say, "If we say from heaven, he'll say, why didn't you believe him? If we say from men, the crowd's going to be on us, like lice on a dead dog." So they turn around and say to Jesus, "We don't know." He says, "Well then neither will I tell you where my power comes from." And the conversation's over. And you can see the Pharisees standing there going "We're offended." You know? He's like, "What do you want me to do?"
Change the way things are? So you're not offended, I...
John:
Yeah.
Steve:
So he constantly... He offends. He offends me. I just texted somebody, I think in the car while you guys were pulling up, I said, they were talking about the message last Sunday about how the loss of power, anyway, right? And I just said, "This is part of Jesus that I find wildly offensive." To have all of that power...
John:
And to not use it. Like I think you should.
Steve:
I'm like "Man."
John:
I'd love to hear you preach Malchus' ear.
Steve:
Oh man.
John:
I heard Dr. Kinlaw talk about that a couple times.
Steve:
Oh did you? I wish I could of heard that.
John:
I just... This holy week, I've been going back through that. What an odd thing, or seemingly at first glance to include, in the holy week narrative or story. I-
Steve:
Kinlaw would've pointed that out.
John:
Yeah. I didn't come up without my own, clearly. But it's just like what? Back to the power. Right?
Steve:
Put away the sword. Yeah. What's the secular narrative say? No, you got this coming to you, right? Just leave the ear on the ground, man. You're going to be probably deaf the rest of your life. And one more. I have all the power. I'm going to heal the guy's ear, right? And I'm still going to let you take me to the cross.
Pilot says to him, "Don't you know I have the power to either crucify you or set you free?" I'm thinking if you were packing that kind of power...You want to talk about power?
John:
That's right.
Steve:
Yeah, it's just incredible. But therein is that is the mystery of the crucifixion and the gospel. Two people today who are disempowered. And there are millions of them. In things as micro as marriages, or jobs, where they're being run over and abused. And in things as vast, as privileged, and race. There are people that are disempowered. And the gospel to those people, is that Christ is in that dis-empowerment. The conqueror in Revelation is a slaughtered lamb. The contest at the end of time is between a slaughtered lamb and a dragon, and the slaughtered lamb wins. The throne in Revelation Five is not a seat, it's a cross. That's a funny throne.
So while he's dying, we think he's losing, and he's winning. He's taking his seat of powerlessness on a throne. He's not biding time for Easter, he is stripping himself of all vestments of power. And if you've been disempowered by people in this world, can you not find resonance in that? Is that not your man? Is that not who you want? I've been there, man. There must be times in you guys life when that has been true, right? I mean, when you're out of options and you're out of hope, and the only thing you get from Jesus is, "Yeah, me too."
Connor:
Yeah. He says "I've been there."
Steve:
Yeah. And what you learn in that moment, I was just talking to a guy about this, I said, "I lost his dad." And I said, "When I lost my sister", I realized in that moment, because I was having at it with God again, "You could have stopped this. There's a lot of things that you could have done", then it occurred to me one day I got nothing to teach him when it comes to this. I have nothing to teach him when it comes to suffering.
And so I was praying for solutions and I was praying for miracles, and what I ended up getting that day was just company. And that's gospel.
Connor:
Well, Steve we're thankful you've taken the time to join us. We know you have a tight schedule. So we've loved this conversation, we hope you have to. As we kind of wrap things up, we'd love if you take some time to pray over those of us walking with the next generation. That could be you, you have grandkids. It could be me as a dad. It could be parents, teachers, coaches, and then also praying for that next generation as they walk with Jesus and find their story inside of his. So we'd love if you take it, take some time and lead us in that.
Steve:
Father. First, I thank you for the privilege of living with ministering to the next generation. I thank you for the talent and the abilities that you have given them, the passion for Christ that you have given them. What I ask for us who are in positions now that are near them, is that you would help us to steward those positions well. So that when they work with us, or if they answer to us, if they hear from us, they will see you. I pray that you would make our families strong, our communities strong, so that what they want to become someday, we are. I pray you would make us doers of the word, not just preachers of it. You have enough of those. So for their sake, We give you ourselves, in Jesus name. Amen.
Connor:
Thanks for joining us, Steve. We really appreciate it. This has been a good time. Thanks John, for joining as well. And thanks to all of our listeners for joining us as we pray for and walk with the next generation, as they seek to use their gifts and talents and experiences to journey with Jesus and participate in the great commission. Thanks for sharing the approach with others and rating and reviewing it, as this helps others find the podcast. For some of our resources, you can check out our show notes on our website at wgm.org/podcast.